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 Too Many Clients (1960) 
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New post Archie, Lily and Lucy
I agree, Archie tries to avoid the risk of rejection and setting the bar high will do it.
As FS says, non-interference with his work is an absolute prerequisit for a wife. I think, being married to Archie would be great fun . . . for about 15 minutes. :D
I am not sure about someone as autonomous as Mrs. Bruner. He seems too young for her. Might she look at him as a Toy Boy? Something Archie would not tolerate at any price.

Now that we have pretty much the nitty-gritty on Archie, let's look at Lily.
FS, you are 'the man'! What courage! For years I shared your view, but seeing that practically everyone else is busy errecting pedestals for Lily and forming mutual admiration societies, I did not dare open my mouth!
Wealth to Lily means spending it. Nothing else.
Well, she once did give a secretarial job to a girl who needed it and she did assist Roeder in times of need.
Other than that, I see nothing remarkable. There is the 'salon' for weird poets (who can forget 'spittle licking') and a rodeo in a Manhattan penthouse, roping animals from the balcony, no less! Try this in 2007 :lol:
I think Kari Matchett, being as wonderful as she is, has done much to make Lily likeable.

I am much more impressed with Lucy Valdon.
Wealth to Lucy comes with the burden of accountable stewardship and responsibility to others. She still has fun and enjoys all the good things money can buy AND Archie admires and respects her.

How does one make boxes around excerpts from previous posts?
And how does one get a nice little logo?

Probably too complex for my meager talents. :oops:


Fri, 27 Jul 2007, 3:30
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New post Re: Archie, Lily and Lucy
Starfish, I, too, am happy to find someone with similar views on Lily. :P

starfish wrote:
How does one make boxes around excerpts from previous posts?

Easy :!: Instead of pressing the Post Reply button, press the Quote button located in the top right corner of every existing post.

The quotation from that particular post will then appear in your edit window, surrounded by the quote tags:

Code:
[quote="Original Writer's Name"]This is the text you're quoting[/quote]

Leave those two tags, [quote] at the beginning and [/quote] at the end of the quoted text, intact. (Think of Archie taunting Wolfe by saying “Quote, unquote”. :lol:) Of course, delete whatever you do not wish to quote.

If you wish to quote multiple excerpts in a single post: quoted excerpt – your reply, quoted excerpt – your reply, quoted excerpt – your reply, you will simply need to use some copying (CTRL+C) and pasting (CTRL+V).

For example, in this post where I'm quoting your lines, I need to copy these tags:

Code:
[quote="starfish"]This is your text[/quote]

At any time you may also simply highlight any text and then press the Quote button above your edit window: that will create the “quote box” around the text, too. :idea: But, it would miss the attribution of that quoted text – so, I for one prefer the copy & paste procedure. 8)

starfish wrote:
And how does one get a nice little logo?

First, find a picture of the appropriate size. Then, click Profile at the top of any forum webpage. At the bottom of your Profile webpage, in the Avatar control panel, press the Choose button and select, by double-clicking, your preferred picture from your computer. Finally, press the Submit button at the very bottom of your Profile webpage, and you're done. :idea:

If you need more detailed instructions, or a re-wording of what's above, don't hesitate to ask. All of us had to learn these things at some point; learning never ends for anyone. :)

To conclude this post, thanks a lot, Starfish, for suggesting an improvement to this discussion forum :!: I've just set up a new thread to discuss Rex Stout's superb non-Wolfe mystery novel Red Threads, and have included the following paragraph at the top of the thread, based on your suggestion/question:

Quote:
You may also use this thread for general discussions about this literary work; you do not necessarily need to discuss specific quotations.

I have also inserted this paragraph at the top of all previously set up threads, including the current one, to make it clear that these topics are not necessarily meant to talk about specific quotations only, but about the books themselves in general terms, too. You said, Starfish, you'd perhaps like to comment on The Black Mountain in general terms, so feel free to do so at any time. 8)


Fri, 27 Jul 2007, 8:05
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New post Re: Archie, Lily and Lucy
starfish wrote:
For years I shared your view, but seeing that practically everyone else is busy errecting pedestals for Lily and forming mutual admiration societies, I did not dare open my mouth!

What? :shock: You mean you don't think Lily Rowan is the epitome of independent and intelligent women everywhere? :wink: Next you'll be telling me that Stout didn't actually create the prototype of the wealthy, sharp-tongued socialite who is more than a match for the boys! Why, I was willing to accept the common view that Lily is actually useful in the corpus, instead of just stalking Archie with a repetoire of one-liners and the Manhattanite's Bible of All Things Cultured, so that he can occasionally surprise Wolfe with a reference to art or the opera, and you have cruelly dashed my beliefs :cry: Now I shall just have to regard her as a plot device again :wink:

starfish wrote:
I think Kari Matchett, being as wonderful as she is, has done much to make Lily likeable.

I really admire Kari's character range, and the way she could take on a lot of similar roles and make each one seem individual - but she didn't get a fair run at Lily, even counting her extra part in 'Christmas Party'. It is such a shame that the plug was pulled before the cast could tackle 'Some Buried Caesar' - she would have been amazing in that story! :D

starfish wrote:
I am much more impressed with Lucy Valdon.
Wealth to Lucy comes with the burden of accountable stewardship and responsibility to others. She still has fun and enjoys all the good things money can buy AND Archie admires and respects her.

Amen on that one, I love The Mother Hunt and Lucy Valdon - and Penelope Ann Miller was absolutely perfect in the role, diminutive and yet vibrant (not sure about the killer fog line, however! :? ), a little vague on the surface but confident enough to take on Wolfe and Archie! Plus, I loved her outfits :wink:

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Fri, 27 Jul 2007, 12:35
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New post The Ladies
Well Adonis, let's just say Lily is very good at dealing with men; but then, most women are. :D
Lucy on the other hand, made Wolfe sit up straight and take notice. I love the office scene when she had the nerve to find an aphid on his orchid, which she later downgraded to a dust speck.
She inspected his artwork and showed surprise to find it was real.
When he asked her age, she made it clear that it was none of his business and when he assumed she was following her lawer's orders, he learned that she follows her own.
I think Wolfe had an inkling that Lucy was a force to be reckoned with, especially if she should decide she wanted Archie. 8)


Sun, 29 Jul 2007, 1:37
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New post Goodwingrad's Review of Too Many Clients
Goodwingrad has just posted a review of Too Many Clients, no doubt in a further attempt to persuade Adonis Guilfoyle not to forego reading that fine, although flamboyant (too much for some tastes) late Nero Wolfe novel.

Thank you for the review, Goodwingrad. (And my wish for 2008 is to give me more opportunities to work on this site, prominently on collections of Rex Stout quotations, than 2007 was willing to provide.)

[BTW: Goodwingrad's Wolfean cover art has already been restored to former glory, following the site's collapse a couple of months ago.]


Tue, 18 Dec 2007, 22:46
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New post Re: Goodwingrad's Review of Too Many Clients
Wow! You are quick! I was just about to announce my review, but you had already done it. I finally was able to write it after my busy school semester! I have just recently ordered League of Frightened Men, so I think that is the next one I shall be rereading and sharing my ethusiasm for! 8)


Wed, 19 Dec 2007, 0:34
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I don't know if there's anybody still out there, but I have to announce this: I have read Too Many Clients! I gave in and bought a copy, before my renewed fervour for the series could reach its peak! :wink:

I still think it's too dark for a Nero Wolfe mystery, and so I will be classing it with A Family Affair as a once-only read, but at least I got through it. Some intriguing quotes from Archie about marriage, not least that he has 'prior commitments' (Lily?), and his knight-errant role as the Perez's 'detective' almost balances out the champagne reference, but not quite. I still have issues with that. Dinah Hough is drinking Yeager's Dom Perignon with Fred when Archie first meets her, and Maria collected the labels from the bottles which Archie finds in her room, so I suppose it could be a pointed message from Archie to Mr Hough, but why send it to the husband, with his compliments? Also - Meg Duncan. Archie is crudely, but realistically, male in the chapter where he goes to talk to the actress in her bedroom - he can paw her, because she's sat on a bed, wearing a flimsy nightgown, and he finds her attractive, but she can't respond? There's a rather hypocritical subtext about sex and control in this book; I grant that it's set in the early 60s, but I expected more of Archie. He didn't touch Julie Jacquette in similar circumstances, so why should he feel free with Meg Duncan - because she's 'that type of woman'?

Anyway, old ground! Just thought I would announce by baptism by fire :P


Thu, 3 Apr 2008, 20:31
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New post 
Is that Adonis speaking without logging in? :wink: I'm still around, though extremely busy :(, so will only have time to react to some of these board messages and to continue the work on the Stout quotation collections later on. 8)


Thu, 3 Apr 2008, 20:37
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New post 
Yes, sorry - I thought I was automatically logged in, and only found out otherwise after posting. I've been trying to add this tag for the past five minutes, but my connection is sluggish :roll:

Pardon the rant! And I might add that quote from Archie, but I don't think I'll be contributing my usual bushel of famous words :?

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Thu, 3 Apr 2008, 20:45
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New post 
AdonisGuilfoyle wrote:
Pardon the rant! And I might add that quote from Archie, but I don't think I'll be contributing my usual bushel of famous words :?

The rant was fine! :) Feel free to contribute as much or as little as you wish. Even small contributions are very much appreciated.

AdonisGuilfoyle wrote:
I thought I was automatically logged in, and only found out otherwise after posting.

Whenever you need to fill in the captcha code here in the forum, you know you're not logged in. 8) (It sometimes also happens to me I forget to log in, especially on the wiki quotations pages, where there's no captcha.)


Thu, 3 Apr 2008, 20:50
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New post Hello hello hello!
Hi, if anyone is out there!

I thought that after a million years I would check out what is going on the forum. Nothing much, but I was happy to see Adonis (Hey!) finally read Too Many Clients. Very sad that you don't like it still, that you can't be persuaded to the light where all Nero Wolfe books are treasures of genius and fun! It so much better that way. Haha! 8)

I don't know why everyone is still discussing the champagne comment, the meaning of it is pretty obvious to me. Is there anywhere, in the history of Rex Stout's life, where he thought it was okay for husband's to be abusive towards their wives? He had a wife, and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have thought about hitting her around! So, therefore, why would he write Archie as being an advocate for wife beating? Who cares about the time period in which it is in, why would chivalrous Archie celebrate wife beating? I say we use some detective deduction here and I see no evidence that such a thing is true. Whereas, I see evidence that Archie was being a wise guy, which is a fact of his character. Obviously. Mr. Hough says to send her some champagne making another jab at his wife, but Archie sends the same exact champagne she drank with her lover to her husband instead with his compliments. Um...isn't the meaning pretty clear? That's insulting, subtle, but all Archie.

As for Meg Duncan, well, Archie is realistically male sometimes. We have seen some evidence of it throughout the corpus, but I don't think it that alarming. He isn't always like that. I don't think it ruins the book.

The book is rather darker than most in the corpus, definitely more sexual, but it is still the same. The same formula, the same Archie, the same Wolfe, the same Rex Stout all over. That's why I love it! Unfortunately I haven't been doing any rereading of the corpus, too busy with other things, but I hope to one day!

(Adonis, I still haven't seen The Golden Spiders! Haha!)

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Wed, 21 May 2008, 0:18
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 Forum Upgrade! (Re: Hello hello hello!)
Goodwingrad wrote:
I thought that after a million years I would check out what is going on the forum. Nothing much

Ah, it may look like “nothing much” to you, and not many new posts have appeared lately. But this forum has in fact undergone a thorough software upgrade from phpBB 2 to phpBB 3; see a list of new and improved phpBB 3 features. I spent countless hours working over the upgrade, and am happy to report that all the functionality necessary for meaningful literary discussions is now in place. 8) Not just the ability to merge topics, cut them in two, or transfer misplaced individual posts into the correct thread, but above all subforum categories.

Whereas earlier this year, there was only one comprehensive Rex Stout forum (so comprehensive it was starting to get difficult to keep track of all the various threads on disparate topics), today there are no fewer than 8 separate Rex Stout forums. It is instantly clear now what is being discussed in each particular section:


Also, you may have noticed there are now more pictures interspersed on forum pages, such as your own resplendent Goodwinesque photo signature getting full display (not possible in previous software), along with pictures of Stout, Wolfe, Archie, Cramer and Fritz to help identify the various forum subcategories.

Plus, a new domain has been purchased for this site: ABoQ.org or aboq.org (standing for A Book of Quotations), so that everything previously available under avenarius.sk is now also available under aboq.org.

Goodwingrad wrote:
I don't know why everyone is still discussing the champagne comment

I agree with you; I abhor political correctness. I find it to be an enemy of freedom (of expression), to use Wolfe's turn of phrase. :oops:


Wed, 21 May 2008, 11:09
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New post Re: Forum Upgrade! (Re: Hello hello hello!)
Oh, of course! I didn't mean not to notice all your nice hardwork of the software upgrade! :D It looks really great and I love how the signature pics are full size now. Ooooo! The whole forum is very colorful with the pictures and the style is contemporary and is easy to navigate. It also really helpful to be able to see what is being discussed in the subforms and such. Really good work! I like it! And getting a new domain makes it easier for people to access the site? Very nice. 8)

But it looks like there isn't any new members, though. Sadness. Are all of them in the great Oracle Nero Wolfe yahoo group still? There needs to be more Nero Wolfe fans.

Speaking of fans, you forwarded me the discussions you have been having with fans in the yahoo group. What's that all about? You were corrupting the poor people (though from some of their comments they were already fargone) towards the darkside of Nero Wolfe fandom, by suggesting what were masterpieces and what weren't. It was very elaborate, I would have just said "They are all AMAZING, read them all NOW." But I did see you were still showing off my Nero Wolfe artwork, so I forgive you...for now. :lol:

Quote:
I agree with you; I abhor political correctness. I find it to be an enemy of freedom (of expression), to use Wolfe's turn of phrase.

Likewise, I completely agree with you! Political correctness is an enemy of freedom, and it makes people too sensitive and whiny over something that is worthless. A waste of time. Simply it is puerile behavior, to use one of Nero Wolfe's words. Hehe!

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Wed, 21 May 2008, 17:51
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New post Re: Forum Upgrade! (Re: Hello hello hello!)
Hello again, Goodwingrad! :mrgreen:

Goodwingrad wrote:
Quote:
I agree with you; I abhor political correctness. I find it to be an enemy of freedom (of expression), to use Wolfe's turn of phrase.

Likewise, I completely agree with you! Political correctness is an enemy of freedom, and it makes people too sensitive and whiny over something that is worthless. A waste of time. Simply it is puerile behavior, to use one of Nero Wolfe's words. Hehe!


Well, I think that's me told! :roll: Normally, I would agree wholeheartedly - social history is not always pleasant, and whitewashing it in books and on screen achieves nothing, but I draw the line at domestic violence. The double standard of the 50s and 60s, when women were neither revered or respected, is revolting, but I just can't stomach cowardly men like Hough who hide their insecurities behind their fists - and the suggestion that Archie might approve of such a pathetic stand just bothered me (obviously!) I'm not a feminist - honestly! - but I think men should at least be courteous! Archie has displayed one or two obnoxious traits that rather revealed his feet of clay to me - I suppose it makes him more believable as a character, but chauvanism is an unfortunate flaw to have

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Sat, 24 May 2008, 22:54
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New post Re: Forum Upgrade! (Re: Hello hello hello!)
I miss the Archie fandom! :mrgreen: Hehe!

I totally agree with you, of course, Adonis, about men having to respect women and be courteous and all that jazz. I also think there was a double standard back in those days and beating women was more "accepted" in a sense, but I doubt if it was any worse than it is today. Archie does show chauvenistic tendencies, but nothing too serious and nothing which would look favorably on wife beating. How could you think it?! :shock: My main objection to the whole champagne debate, despite making a big deal out of nothing, is the fact that no one seems to get the subtle insult, but instead they seem to persist in the idea that Archie thinks it's okay to beat women, when he himself as not done so and has not shown any thoughts or inclinations towards such an idea. I for one think it was very clever of Archie. :D

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Tue, 27 May 2008, 6:57
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