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 Too Many Clients (1960) 
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I hate when I can't remember to sign in! :oops:


Fri, 20 Jul 2007, 1:08
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Goodwingrad wrote:
Yay! Guess what I did? I collected a bunch of quotes from TMC and are now up for everyone to view!

Thanks very much :!: Your quotes really make a persuasive case for Adonis to read the novel. Why, it's unimaginable to me that I'd voluntarily refuse to read any Wolfe volume by Rex Stout. It took me something like 15 years (!!!), here in Central Europe, to get hold of all of them (even borrowing them seemed impossible for many years), so I value each and every Wolfe volume as a treasure, including those I disliked upon the first reading. :D

Goodwingrad wrote:
Sorry, Alex, but I don't know how to do all those little paragraph thingababobs

No problem, I'll fill those in later on. The thingababobs are done by means of snippets of HTML code; I have those prepared in an extra file and I just always copy them in when submitting a quote. You may simply ignore this; it's just my personal ambition to make the collections look as professional as can be.

BTW (as I said, you may ignore this), the snippet of code that inserts the paragraph sign inside the body of a quote looks like this, at the beginning of a paragraph (two empty spaces follow the paragraph sign):

Code:
<span class="par">¶</span>&nbsp;


And to conclude a paragraph (two empty spaces precede the paragraph sign):

Code:
&nbsp;<span class="par">¶</span>


When there is an inline comment in square brackets, as Danielle has just excellently done in the Too Many Clients collection, for example to indicate that a pronoun, such as “he”, means [Wolfe], the snippet of code to insert an inline comment looks like this:

Code:
<span class="in">[this is the inline comment]</span>


All that this accomplishes is that the inline comment will then appear in italics, and in a [different color] from the rest of the quotation, which makes the quote easier to read/understand.

But, if you simply insert an inline comment by means of ordinary black-on-yellow square brackets [like this], that's perfectly OK. It's a wiki site, so anyone else may arrive to that webpage on any other day and insert the above snippet of code to make the inline comment appear in [italics and a different color]. 8)

Goodwingrad wrote:
and whatever else you have to do make it look all professional like we actually care about copyrighting and what not. :wink:

For the record, we do care about copyrights on this site. 8)

The paragraph and inline thingababobs really are only connected to the effort to make the site look professional and for it to be linguistically reliable. Because, as mentioned in another thread, whether a sentence opens or closes a paragraph is semantically significant, that is: it may affect (increase or decrease) the impact and meaning of an utterance:

Faterson wrote:
I like inserting the paragraph mark () to indicate where a quoted sentence opens or closes a paragraph. That's because from the linguistic point of view, it's often significant what sentences open or close paragraphs. Opening and closing sentences often carry more significance than sentences within the body of a longer paragraph. The other contributors are, of course, free to ignore such minuscule linguistic details and leave it up to me to take care of them. :wink:


Goodwingrad wrote:
Oh! I intend on writing a review for this book too, just because these things need some pizazz. :P

A review would be great, Goodwingrad :!: Thanks a lot in advance. As you may have noticed, each quotations page has an (initially empty) accompanying article webpage to it – that would be the ideal place for you to post your review of Too Many Clients. You just press the article tab at the top of the webpage with quotations from Too Many Clients, insert your review in the empty editing window, save that page, and that's all :!:

Of course, you may also post your review here in the forum, though it might get lost among all the various discussions here. The ideal arrangement would seem to be to have the quotations tab contain the quotes from a book, and the article tab right next to it might contain various readers' reviews of that very same book. That would seem like a logical, transparent arrangement, so that's why I also copied Goodwingrad's earlier review of Where There's a Will from the forum to the article page of Where There's a Will.

Goodwingrad wrote:
So, when Archie sent the guy Dom Perignon with "Compliments from Archie Goodwin" it was a jab at the husband. Obviously our chivalrous Archie was appalled by what he had done to her, so he rubs it in that she had gone to Yeager's love nest instead of seeking the arms of her husband. Make sense? Of course it does!

Urm... I don't want to damp your enthusiasm, but your interpretation seems a bit far-fetched. :twisted: I myself am afraid it really might come down to Archie being insultingly politically incorrect, back in 1960. But, as I said earlier, I don't remember the scene too well, so I may be wrong and Danielle's interpretation, so favorable towards Archie, may be correct. I'd be glad if it were. Anyway, I'll be paying special attention to that champagne gift when I re-read the novel next time around. 8)

Goodwingrad wrote:
I hate when I can't remember to sign in! :oops:

Not so important... :) The telltale sign is that when you need to fill in the spam-filter letters and numbers, you're not signed in. (Not that that captcha is terribly effective; I have to manually weed out porn spam from other sections of this forum every day. No automatically submitted porn links or pictures have appeared in the Rex Stout forum so far, thank heavens; when the day comes, it may perhaps become necessary to prevent posters who aren't logged in from contributing... :( Time will tell.)


Fri, 20 Jul 2007, 11:05
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New post Of books and bubbly
Excellent quotes, Danielle! :D The best ones are in the episode, too, but there are some sharp observations in there from Wolfe, and I love the extended 'abstract Christmas card' excerpt! I was also willing to believe in your 'Dom Perignon' explanation - willing to believe anything but what I suspect! However, I will read the book, eventually - like 'A Family Affair', I have to make my own mind up :wink:

I'm currently reading 'Murder in Style', as my copy has it, and enjoying it immensely, so some quotes will probably follow for that novel, too. My favourite part so far - Archie finding a body that is so obviously dead he doesn't have to apply either of his ridiculous tests (the fluff and fingernail method of pronouncing life extinct - what's wrong with feeling for a pulse?) :P

I had difficulty in finding copies of the books, too - I even had to borrow a couple from the British Library! But then I found my saviour - Abebooks. Second-hand a-go-go! :D I'm shopping for Champagne for One, next - I've read it, but it's one of my favourite stories and episodes, so I would like my own copy to treasure!

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Fri, 20 Jul 2007, 11:51
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New post Re: Of books and bubbly
AdonisGuilfoyle wrote:
I'm currently reading 'Murder in Style', as my copy has it, and enjoying it immensely

This is, definitely, one of Rex Stout's masterpieces. Most readers know it under the title Plot It Yourself. I think Murder in Style is the British variant of the title.

Plot It Yourself is without a doubt one of the funniest Wolfe stories. Both Archie and Wolfe are in top form :!:

(It's also interesting that this 1959 novel immediately followed on the 1958 Champagne for One which, unlike Adonis, I found insipid and boring, and was itself followed in 1960 by the controversial novel discussed in this thread, Too Many Clients.) :)

AdonisGuilfoyle wrote:
so some quotes will probably follow for that novel, too.

I have selected lots of quotes from Plot It Yourself. It will be amusing to see whether some of our quotes overlap, Adonis. Interestingly enough, you selected 14 quotations from If Death Ever Slept, and I added another 12, so there are currently 26 in total, but not a single quotation selected by you or me overlaps in the instance of this novel. 8)


Fri, 20 Jul 2007, 12:27
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New post Re: Of books and bubbly
Faterson wrote:
This is, definitely, one of Rex Stout's masterpieces. Most readers know it under the title Plot It Yourself. I think Murder in Style is the British variant of the title.

I'm not sure why the title was changed - perhaps there was already an existing novel with Stout's original title over here? Anyway, whatever the name, I love it - I think it's one of the first stories in the corpus which I have read for the mystery! And the body count is also fairly high in this one - I thought Archie's second encounter with Stebbins was hilarious, and very well paced (one of those scenes that has me leaning forward in my chair, even though the outcome is obvious!) The 'red herring' was also successful in this - very Chandleresque.

faterson wrote:
Plot It Yourself is without a doubt one of the funniest Wolfe stories. Both Archie and Wolfe are in top form :!:

Certainly! :D I think our quotes might overlap on this one! And finally, another relapse - or 'mutiny' - from Wolfe. I missed those, after the early stories.

Plus, Lily ranks a couple of Honourable Mentions - well, if Wolfe will pack Archie off, to spare his 'powers of dissimulation' ..! :wink:

faterson wrote:
(It's also interesting that this 1959 novel immediately followed on the 1958 Champagne for One which, unlike Adonis, I found insipid and boring

Not too surprising, though :wink: The plot of Champagne is nothing to write home about, but the characters are amusing - supported by the expert cast of the series! I like Fritz's fear that Archie's presence at a dinner-dance for unwed mothers could only make their situations worse :wink: I shall have to dig up my quotes for that, too - I've just selected my favourites from Murder/Plot It, and shall be posting soon

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Fri, 20 Jul 2007, 16:06
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Faterson wrote:
It took me something like 15 years (!!!), here in Central Europe, to get hold of all of them (even borrowing them seemed impossible for many years), so I value each and every Wolfe volume as a treasure, including those I disliked upon the first reading.


And I thought I had difficulties in obtaining Nero Wolfe novels. What is wrong with everyone? Isn't P.G. Wodehouse very popular? Particularly in England? He makes mention of Rex Stout, that should make everyone want to go read his books! I just don't get it, though, why these books are such a hassle to get. Obviously, my library has almost every Wodehouse, but not every Nero Wolfe novel. And, I was just looking on Amazon to purchase some W&J novels, and most of them are out of print or cost 12 bucks for paperbacks that look like someone puked all over the cover! Rrrrrrrrgh. Just because these books were released a long time ago, doesn't mean they should be treated with such disrespect anf contempt by publishing companies. I'm still angry at the Rex Stout Library. But I shall preservere! These books are worth it.

Anyway, thanks Alex for the info about the HTML and what not. I know how to work with HTML, I just don't all that much about it. So next time, I shall be more informed but I see you enjoy making it look all professional. Don't want to interfere with your particular hobbies. :wink:

Faterson wrote:
For the record, we do care about copyrights on this site.


Oh right. We got to keep up appearances. I get you. 8)

Faterson wrote:
Urm... I don't want to damp your enthusiasm, but your interpretation seems a bit far-fetched. I myself am afraid it really might come down to Archie being insultingly politically incorrect, back in 1960. But, as I said earlier, I don't remember the scene too well, so I may be wrong and Danielle's interpretation, so favorable towards Archie, may be correct. I'd be glad if it were. Anyway, I'll be paying special attention to that champagne gift when I re-read the novel next time around.


No! Why don't you believe me? It is so obvious! It isn't a question of what is politically correct or not, this is a matter of what is known as right or wrong. Archie Goodwin is a gentleman and the "hero type," as has been stated with signifcant evidence from the book. Despite all of Stout's little inconsistancies in the books, he would never be inconsistant with his two main characters. Why would he screw up his two masterpieces of literary genius? He knows these two inside and out, seeing as in many ways they both seem a part of his personality and character. You just don't make Archie Goodwin pro-wife beater and intend to get away with it! It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. No matter how much a wife may deserve to be "shown a lesson", it doesn't make domestic abuse right. Come on, think about it! Would a man who bounds out of the brownstone with such passionate zeal to avenge a damsel's murder (ahem! Prisoner's Base people!) be in favor of beating up a woman until she looks like death warmed over? Yeah...I don't think so.

Thank you, Adonis, for being willing to believe the explaination. It is so obvious, I don't know why anyone hasn't seen it before. Maybe I'm just smarter... :D


Fri, 20 Jul 2007, 23:45
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Goodwingrad wrote:
I just don't get it, though, why these books are such a hassle to get.

As to me, I live in a non-English-speaking country, so some Nero Wolfe stories were only available in translations, which I wouldn't read, so as not to spoil my reading pleasure. It was the stories in original English that were so difficult to obtain; finally, with the help of fellow Wolfe fans from around the world, I was able to read all of them in English; it took about 15 years, though.

Although I've finally succeeded in getting my hands on all of Wolfes, when it comes to Rex Stout's non-Wolfe writings, the situation continues to be desperate for any literary scholar who'd like to study all of Stout's works seriously. :cry:

Quote:
Oh right. We got to keep up appearances. I get you. 8)

“Mr. Cramer, you're a donkey,” Wolfe told him. :P

By the way, I'll probably be upgrading this forum's software tomorrow (Saturday) or very soon. We need to add some functionality here: ability to transfer posts between threads, for instance. (Whenever we veer off-topic for a particular thread.) This is currently not possible, but it would be highly useful.

Also, the ability to create sub-forums within forums will have to be installed extra. For example, within the Rex Stout forum, there could be several sub-categories, one of them for discussing the 74 Nero Wolfe stories (one dedicated thread for each story), while another subsection could be for specific topics related to the Corpus: a thread for Fritz, another thread for Saul, or a thread for examining the connections between Rex Stout and P. G. Wodehouse. I think such sub-categories within forums will be useful, otherwise we might soon drown among the wealth of potential topics that can be discussed here. :)

So, should the forum be closed for a few hours over the weekend, it will only be closed for maintenance work and re-open soon. 8)

PS: Many thanks to Adonis for launching the Plot It Yourself collection earlier tonight :!: I'll be handling her request (regarding the footnote, etc.) tomorrow.


Sat, 21 Jul 2007, 0:22
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New post Just about the bubbly.
Danielle, I could not unearth your views on the subject, so I hope I will not tread on any toes with this post.

I never got involved in the great champagne debates. The situation seemed to me straight forward and clear cut, in one word: Sarcasm, all around.

When Archie asked what he could do, the husband sneeringly said: "Just send her a bottle of champagne", indicating, she gladly debases herself for tokens of luxury and something as trivial as a bottle of champagne will make her feel good again.
Archie was very angry and there was nothing he could do. Reporting to authorities in those days would be futile. So, he too resorted to sarcasm. By sending the champagne to the husband he said in effect, "you also debased yourself by doing to her what you did. So, here is a bottle of champagne for you buddy. You deserve it! SARCASM.

Of course, I may be out in left field with a hockey stick. :lol:


Tue, 24 Jul 2007, 3:04
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New post Re: Just about the bubbly.
starfish wrote:
I never got involved in the great champagne debates. The situation seemed to me straight forward and clear cut, in one word: Sarcasm, all around.

By sending the champagne to the husband he said in effect, "you also debased yourself by doing to her what you did. So, here is a bottle of champagne for you buddy. You deserve it! SARCASM.


The dark humour take on the champagne gesture did crop up when I brought this up with the Yahoo! Nero Wolfe community, and I am desperate to believe anything - that he meant it as a dig at the husband, that he was referring to the 'bower of carnality' - other than the obvious, but I wonder. In the Homicide Trinity stories I'm currently reading - and liking better than most of the novelettes - Archie makes a couple of comments about not hitting women 'without provocation', so I think there may be the possibility that he considered Dinah's beating to be fair enough - she liked to torment her impotent husband by flaunting her dalliances, and he finally snapped and 'put her in her place'. Archie has this extreme interpretation of gender equality, perhaps - if someone needs a good slap to sort them out, it doesn't matter if they're male or female! :shock:

My goodness, but it will be fun when I finally get to read this book for myself! :wink:

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Tue, 24 Jul 2007, 14:34
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New post violence and Archie ?
Still trying to convince Adolfo that Archie is a thoroughly Good Egg! To quote Bertie Wooster, "He (in our case, Archie) does not do that which is not done.
I have great faith in Archie's Mid-Western upbringing.
As shown in other episodes, people of the 30s and 40s were not squeamish about physical contact. Archie was thrown out of buildings, into the street etc. In return he broke arms, bullied, tweaked noses (THAT was a girl :shock: ) and kicked others downstairs. He was not gentle when ejecting unsavory clients and fist fights in the office were numerous. Wolfe found them deplorable, but only after the event. :wink:
In today's climate they all would be in jail on assault and battery charges. Not to mention evidence tampering, unlawful entry. breaking and entering . . . the mind reels! :lol:

On occasion Archie takes a woman's purse by force to confirm an ID or confiscate a gun. Now that makes me a bit warm under the collar. :shock:
I think for him to physically assault a woman, the provocation would have to be extreme, nothing short of a threat to his or Wolfe's life. Mere promiscuity would not justify it to Archie.


Wed, 25 Jul 2007, 17:17
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Am I Adolfo? :wink: Keep going, I want to believe!

I understand and appreciate Archie's finer qualities, but I think it's as he says in LotFM, which I'm currently re-reading: he has all the normal reactions to women, and isn't exactly against marriage if the right woman were to come along, but work comes first (he tells Lily much the same thing in Caesar, too). I think women become 'clients' to him, either helping his and Wolfe's investigation, or hindering it - and he has no patience with women who get in the way!

His attachment to Wolfe is also rather intense - his boss' safety is paramount. I think the scene that has jarred me the most in the corpus is not Archie, but Wolfe kicking a woman in the face, albeit in self-defence! I was stunned, that he would employ such violence, and that he could raise his legs high enough :wink:

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Wed, 25 Jul 2007, 17:48
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New post Sorry!
My apologies, Adonis. What was I thinking? It wasn't even a Freudian slip. :?
When Archie evaluates women in a not job related way he seems quite superficial and shallow. His standards for outward appearances are very specific and very high. Seldom if ever, does he go below the surface.

In OMDB I can justify Wolfe going all out in selfdefense. After all, she came at him fast and furious, wielding a big knife. Also, he had some bad experiences with Montenegran women.
It's getting his legs up so high, that I find astounding. :lol:


Thu, 26 Jul 2007, 2:55
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New post Re: Sorry!
starfish wrote:
When Archie evaluates women in a not job related way he seems quite superficial and shallow. His standards for outward appearances are very specific and very high. Seldom if ever, does he go below the surface.


A bit chronic to be analysing a character in a book, I know, but I wonder why this is? Does he set his own standards so high to limit the 'risk' of having to commit? He has various reasons for not getting married - she might be untidy, or she might be domineering - but is it just that he daren't ask for fear of being told where to get off? In one book where he's trying to get a woman to the office, he is actually stunned when she tells him no, and he puts that down to only asking when he's sure the response will be favourable!

I think Archie's ideal woman, if there is such a thing, is actually older than his 'limit', and must be wealthy - Rachel Bruner, or Cecily Pine, for instance. She must be independent, shrewd if not smart, and undemanding of Archie. He likes to 'admire' younger women, but I think he would prefer the experience of a lady who has a husband or two under her belt, and is already established in her life.

starfish wrote:
In OMDB I can justify Wolfe going all out in selfdefense. After all, she came at him fast and furious, wielding a big knife. Also, he had some bad experiences with Montenegran women.

I was thinking more of Faith Usher's mother in Champagne for One! What happens in Over My Dead Body is fair enough, although I'm not sure how Carla felt about it! :wink:

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Thu, 26 Jul 2007, 10:59
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New post Re: Sorry!
AdonisGuilfoyle wrote:
starfish wrote:
When Archie evaluates women in a not job related way he seems quite superficial and shallow. His standards for outward appearances are very specific and very high. Seldom if ever, does he go below the surface.

A bit chronic to be analysing a character in a book, I know, but I wonder why this is? Does he set his own standards so high to limit the 'risk' of having to commit?

My own theory is that both Wolfe and Archie, despite all their differences, love their work (or avocations, in Wolfe's instance) more than anything else. See the quotation from page 85 of Some Buried Caesar (Archie talking to Lily about their relationship).

So, my conjecture would be that the first requirement Archie would pose on any woman who might want to get intimate with him, is that she would agree never to interfere with his work. :lol:

That's why Archie likes Lily, after all. Lily is well aware she's less important to Archie than his work, more an “appendage” to his work or relaxation from it. :oops: Yet Lily is too proud and independent herself to take offence because of this. You know, maybe Archie performs the same function for her in her own life :!:

(Incidentally, does Lily ever do anything to earn her living :?: Or is she simply living off her father's money?) :P


Thu, 26 Jul 2007, 11:31
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New post Re: Sorry!
Faterson wrote:
(Incidentally, does Lily ever do anything to earn her living :?: Or is she simply living off her father's money?) :P


She's a socialite, collecting poor writers and models, etc., to sponsor as a hobby. My surprise is that Stout, who usually makes a big deal about men and women earning their own living ('I'm a workingman'), doesn't object to Lily living off her father's money - perhaps because he stresses that James Rowan's fortune was built on the American Dream. Lily entertains herself in New York, in Katonah, and in Montana, surrounding herself with groups of 'interesting' and worthy people - and going out dancing with Archie when he's free (it seems to be that he sets the dates, or makes the first move, ever since NQDE! :wink: )

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Thu, 26 Jul 2007, 14:14
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