Readers' Feedback (2001)
to Ivan Žežula's article Stop That Insanity in Schools!
SME daily, 6 June 2001
denník SME, 6. júna 2001
http://www.sme.sk/koment.asp?id=61124

 this webpage in Slovak only

Read Ivan Žežula's original article
Prečítajte si pôvodný článok Ivana Žežulu

Note:
No grammar, spelling, or punctuation mistakes were corrected in the Slovak version of readers' feedback reproduced on this webpage.

Upozornenie:
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suhlasim s autorom. kopec veci sa uci len na pisomku, skusku a pod. hodinu po skuske uz to clovek nevie. chcel by som len dodat ze ani na vysokych skolach nie je to lepsie. napriklad strojnicka fakulta. kazdy jeden student sa musi preluskat predmetmi s ktorymi uz nikdy viac nepride do styku. ci je zameranie na technologiu ci konstrukciu predmety su tie iste a specializacie nastupuju od stvrteho rocnika. velka cast prvych troch rokov absolutne nevhodna na naslednu specializaciu a dalsie dva roky nedostatocne na preniknutie do hlbky. potom aj tak vyzeraju diplomove prace a takych mame "inzinierov". bolo by daleko vhodnejsie mat specializacie od trebas druhe rocnika a aj absolventi by boli skutocne v niecom specializivani a nie ako v sucastnosti zo vsetkeho nieco a z nicoho poriadne. I agree with the author. You learn lots of things for a test, exam, etc. An hour after the exam is over, you have no idea what it was all about. I'd just like to add that things are no better in colleges. Take the Faculty of Mechanical Engineering. Each and every student needs to tackle subjects he or she will never encounter again for the rest of their lives. Your specialisation may be technology or construction, but the subjects you need to deal with are always the same, and real specialisation begins only in the fourth year. A large part of the first three years is totally unsuitable in relation to the specialisation that follows, and the remaining two years are not enough to go into depth. The quality of diploma theses and our "engineers" then corresponds to this state of things. It would be far more appropriate for specialisations to start in the second year, for example, and then graduates would really be specialists in their subjects, instead of what they are today: they know something about everything, but they know none of it properly.
alfa alfa


Spominanu Strojnicku fakultu som skoncila pred rokom. Upozornujem, ze som tam sla studovat z vlastneho zaujmu, uz od zaciatku som vedela o aky odbor mam zaujem. Kym som ho skutocne zacala studovat, bola som uz stvrtacka. Cize som na to mala presne dva roky. V tomto s tebou suhlasim. Je to prilis malo na to, aby bol clovek "specialista". Tym nebudes nikdy po skonceni ziadnej vysokej skoly. Ucili nas teoreticke zaklady a velmi malo o tom, ako sa daju aplikovat v praxi, ako tie stovky preratanych prikladov budem vediet vyuzit a hlavne kde. Nadrvili sme sa to a velmi rychlo zabudli. BEZ PRAXE nebudes odbornik nikdy. To sa jednoducho neda. Neviem, mozno je to podobne aj inde, nie len na Slovensku. V kazdom pripade s tym nemozno suhlasit. Preto Vam dam vsetkym radu: najdite si pracu vo svojom odbore uz pocas studia a pracujte tam aspon na tretinovy uvazok, aspon v poslednych dvoch rocnikoch. Ja som dokazom toho, ze aj pri narocnych technickych skolach sa to zvladnut da. Ak aspon ciastocne robite na tom, co zaroven studujete, to je potom o niecom, ked viete teoreticke poznatky aj v realite skutocne vyuzit!
Tie zakladne tri roky vsak neboli zbytocne. Viem vyratat nosnik, viem citat strojarske vykresy, vypocitam aj objemy a obsahy telies zlozitych geometrickych tvarov, mam priestorovu predstavivost,viem navrhnut vykurovanie i klimatizacnu jednotku(to je uz specializacia). Problem bol v tom, ze sa mnozstvo latky pocas tych 5 rokov opakovalo v niekolkych predmetoch. Zbytocne zabity cas a nebolo ho malo.

Autor clanku ma 100% pravdu !!! Ale presvedcte o tom nasich 65-80 rocnych profesorov!
I graduated from said Faculty last year. I want to stress I went to study there because of my own interest, and I'd known from the very beginning what specialisation I was interested in. Before I really began studying it, I was in the fourth year. So I had exactly two years in which I could devote myself to the subject. In this sense I agree with you. It's too short a time to turn anyone into a "specialist". But you'll never be that after graduating from no matter what school. We were taught the underlying theory, but very little about how it could be put into practice, how I'd be able to make use of those hundreds of exercises we were required to solve, and especially where. We crammed for exams, and quickly forgot all the stuff again. You'll never be an expert WITHOUT PRACTICE. That simply can't be done. I don't know, maybe the situation is similar in other countries and it's not just about Slovakia. In any case, it's unacceptable. That's why I'd advise everyone: get a job in your specialist field while you're still studying, and work there for at least a third of the regular working hours, at least during the last two years of your studies. I am proof that this can be accomplished even when you talk about demanding technical schools. If you at least partly work on what you're simultaneously studying, then it makes sense because you can really make practical use of your theoretical knowledge!
The first three years of basics weren't useless for me, though. I can now calculate girders or read engineering designs, I can also compute volumes and capacities of objects of complex geometrical shapes, I have imagination in space, and I'm capable of projecting room heating or air-conditioning units (which is a specialisation). The problem was that lots of the material taught over the course of those 5 years got rehashed in various separate subjects. That's just needlessly wasted time, and there was lots of it.

The article writer is 100% correct!!! But try explaining that to our 65- to 80-year-old professors!
Ivana
Ivana


Suhlasim s autorom v mnohom, ale poznajuc americkych a francuzkych stredoskolakov mam dojem, ze je niekdy lepsie mat encyklopedicke, aj ked chatrne vedomosti z nasej skoly, ako perfektne vystupovanie, argumentaciu a vycibreny sloh bez vedomosti zo skoly americkej. A teoria ze fakty vediet nemusim, lebo si ich niekde najdem neplati, ked neviem co hladam a v akych vztahoch to vystupuje vo svete, len velmi tazko najdem aj s pomocou pocitacov. I agree with the writer on many things, but being familiar with American and French secondary school students, I get the impression that it may sometimes be better to have encyclopaedic, albeit flimsy knowledge from our type of school, than to boast perfect appearance, argumentation and a polished style of expression devoid of any knowledge, which is what an American school will give you. The theory that I need to know no facts because I can always look them up somewhere, is false. If I have no idea what I'm searching for and in what relationships it occurs in the world, it will be very difficult for me to find it even with the help of computers.
Palo Palo


Milý Palo, tu si postavil proti sebe dva extrémy: prehnane faktografický systém u nás a americký "be yourself" systém. U mňa diskutovaný Žežulov článok nevyvolal pocit, že autor volá po tom, aby sa žiaci resp. študenti neučili fakty. Ide tu o nájdenie zmyslu pre mieru vecí,o lepšiu vyváženosť,po ktorých autor volá a ja sa s jeho názorom plne stotožňujem.
Dear Palo, you juxtaposed two extremes here: the excessively fact-oriented system in this country and the American "be yourself" system. Žežula's article we're discussing here didn't strike me as encouraging students to forget about facts. The point is to find the right balance between the two approaches – that's what the writer wants, and I fully identify with his opinion.
daktari
daktari


Standing ovation, pan Profesor (s velkym P)!

Vystiznejsie to ani nemohlo byt, niet co dodat.
Standing ovation, Professor (that's capital P)!

No one could have put it better, and there's nothing to add.
Vlado Vlado


Učím už 13 rokov na vysokej škole a po prečítaní príspevku kolegu p.Žežulu súhlasím prakticky so všetkým čo uviedol vo svojom článku. Na stredných školách sa vyučuje enormné množstvo poznatkov a ťažisko je v memorovaní spamäti . Myslím si, že na Slovensku sa začína prejavovať fakt, že v rokoch šesťdesiatych sa robili nábory na vtedajšie pedagogické inštitúty. Aj na vysokých školách sú v pedagogickom zbore značné medzery v pedagogických schopnostiach učiteľov. Tlak je vedený na tituly /akreditácia a pod./ Českí i slovenskí profesori, ktorí ma učili v šesťdesiatych rokoch na VŠD v Žiline sa nedajú veľmi porovnávať s dnešnými. Tí dnešní sú už takí "socialistickí".
I've been teaching at a university for 13 years and, having read the article by my colleague Mr. Žežula, I agree with practically everything he says. Secondary schools teach students an enormous amount of information, and the focus is on memorising facts. I think what can be observed in today's Slovakia is that in the 1960s, there had been massive recruitment campaigns to get young people to enrol in teaching institutes. In today's universities, too, you can notice large gaps in the pedagogical capabilities of the teaching staff. The pressure is put on formal degrees (to help accreditation, etc.). Czech and Slovak professors who instructed me in the 1960s at VŠD [University of Transport and Communications] in Žilina can't really be compared to today's professors. These are basically "socialist".
Ľudo TOTH
Ľudo TOTH


Pan Profesor, mate 100% pravdu, dakujem Vam za clanok. Palo ma tiez pravdu o prazdnom, vylestenom sebavedomi Americkych stredoskolakoch. Ale to je trade-off, a teraz je Slovensko prilis na tej "encyklopedickej" strane. To by dlho trvalo kym nasi studenti by klesli na uroven svojich zapadnych rovesnikov. Professor, you're 100% correct, thank you for your article. Palo is also right in mentioning the empty, polished confidence of American secondary school students. But that's a trade-off, and nowadays Slovakia too heavily emphasises the "encyclopaedic" aspect. Still, it would take quite some time for our students to sink to the level of their Western peers.
Juraj Juraj


Výborný článok, ostáva už len dúfať, že to budú čítať aj učitelia a riaditelia škôl. Obávam sa, že im dnešný systém vyhovuje a sotva ho budú chcieť zmeniť. Excellent article, and one can only hope that it will also be read by teachers and head teachers. I'm afraid today's system suits them well, and so they'll hardly be motivated to change it.
klamm klamm


ucitel a riaditel na zakladnej a strednej skole nezmeni nic. ucitel dostane na zaciatku skolskeho roka do ruk ucebne osnovy z ministerstva skolstva,ucebnicu a skolsky poriadok, ktory musi dodrziavat...zmeny musi urobit ministerstvo....
A teacher, or even a head teacher in a primary or secondary school can't change anything. At the start of the school year, all teachers are presented with binding curricula from the Ministry of Education, textbooks, and the school's internal regulations they must obey... Changes must be initiated by the Ministry...
jano
jano


System sa nikdy nezmeni, pokial budete rozmyslat tak etatisticky, ako su ladene clanky o skolstve v SME. Pokial bude skolstvo de facto statne monopolne, tak nebudete hlasovat o podobe skolstva svojimi korunovymi hlasmi, ale sa budu viest nekonecne diskusie o tom, ako by to mal stat vyriesit.

Takze clanok bol slaby, lebo sice pise o nasledku, ale nenavrhuje principialne riesenie.
The system will never change as long as you keep thinking in such an etatist fashion as exemplified by articles on education in the SME daily. As long as the school system remains de facto state-run and a monopoly, you'll never be able to vote on what our education system should be like, using your wallets' ballot. Instead, we'll be leading endless discussions on how this should be resolved by the government.

And so, the article was poor, because although it describes harmful effects, it fails to suggest a fundamental solution.
qw qw


Skúste navrhnúť nášmu slovutnému ministrovi riešenie, nevenuje vám ani pohľad! Formálne podpíše napríklad Bolognskú výzvu a školy vy sa trápte, čo tým asi básnik myslel. A po tom o pár rokov je tu problém podobne ako s kreditným systémom, koľko škôl toľko koncepcií, čo znemožňuje mobilitu nie do zahraničia, ale už v rámci Slovenska. Takže predovšetkým pán minister mal pri nástupe, ako je to v iných krajinách zvykom, predložiť svoj program a robiť potom z neho odpočet a to nie formálny!
Just try suggesting a solution to our esteemed Minister of Education, and he won't so much as look at you! Although he may formally sign his name under, say, the Bologna Declaration, it's then up to you schools to figure out the rest. A few years later, we'd be facing a problem similar to the credit system, with every school following its own concept, making mobility impossible not just from Slovakia to abroad, but even within Slovakia. What the Minister should have done the first thing after assuming office was, similar to what's usual in other countries, to present his agenda so his actions could be submitted to a later review, and not just a formal one!
Monika z Košíc
Monika from Košice


Píše sa žĺtok alebo žĺtko? Druhý pád od slova "čaj", ktorý sa skloňuje podľa vzoru stroj, je "od čaja" ako "od stroja" alebo od čaju, ako nám zvyšku asi nevzdelaného sveta lepšie znie. To sú len dva chytáky z príjmacích pohovorov na osemročné bratislavské gymnázium, ktoré by asi nevedelo zodpovedať 90 % roduvernej slovenskej populácie.
O skúške z matematiky by sa dalo tiež polemizovať, lebo na niektoré príklady treba poznať len algoritmy riešenia, nič viac.
Celý náš národ sa postupne stal odborníkom na všetko, ale v podstate ničomu poriadne nerozumie. Každý si sám stavia vlastný dom, opravuje vlastné auto,prerába hifi a repro - sústavy, a teraz po roku 1989 zakladá vlastné pravicovo-ľavicové a stredovo-extrémistické politické strany, ale nič poriadne.
Trochu viac vnútornej pokory a uznania špecialistom by nikomu z nás neuškodilo
Is the correct Slovak word [yolk] "žĺtok" or "žĺtko"? What's the genitive case of the word "čaj" [tea] that is supposed to be inflected following the paradigm "stroj" [machine]: is it "od čaja" [from tea] as in "od stroja" [from a machine], or is it "od čaju", because this sounds more appropriate to us and the rest of the (probably undereducated) world? Those are just two trick questions from entrance exams to an 8-year secondary grammar school in Bratislava, and it's unlikely that 90% of the flag-waving native Slovak population would know the answers.
There could be lots of polemics about the maths exam, too, because for solving some of the assigned problems, you only needed to know the algorithms of solutions and nothing more.
Our entire nation has over time become an expert in everything, although it in fact doesn't understand a single thing properly. Everyone is building their own houses, servicing their own cars, modernising their hi-fi and surround systems, and now after [the collapse of Communism in] 1989, also launching their own conservative-labour and centrist-extremist political parties, and none of that properly.
A modicum of inner humility and recognition for specialists would do all of us a lot of good.
miro miro


Úplný súhlas s článkom, ale ako ďalej. Pochybujem, že sa skutočne bude niekto kompetentný situáciou zaoberať. Široká polemika o téme však môže presvedčiť a vyvolať tlak na ministra (prípadne ministerstvo), že sú dôležitejšie veci ako joga. Total agreement with the article, but what should happen next? I doubt that anyone responsible will try to deal with the situation. Still, a wide-ranging debate about the topic just might persuade and put some pressure on the Minister (or Ministry) so that they realise there are more important issues than [introducing] yoga [to Slovak schools].
Julai Julai


Ako učiteľ strednej školy plne súhlasím s článkom a s príspevkami. Ale nečudujte sa, že je to tak, ako je. Stačí sa pozrieť na zloženie pedagogických zborov na hocijakej škole. Česť výnimkám!!! As a secondary school teacher I fully agree with the article and the reactions. But, no one should be surprised that this is the way things are. Just take a look at the composition of the teachers' staff in any school. (With honourable exceptions!!!)
Ivan I. Ivan I.


Vážný pán Žežula, bravó !!! nechcem opakovať poklony, ale som šokovaný z toho, že v školstve sa aj dnes nájde človek s vlastným názorom a dokonca je ochotný ho zverejniť. Po posledných trápnych akciách na podporu zvýšenia platov, keď sa pokus o štrajk skončil okamžite po sľube vlády, že o rok zvýši učiteľom platy, som rezignoval na možnosť, že existuje učiteľ s vlastným názorom, postojom, presvedčením a odvahou hovoriť verejne o nezmyselných pomeroch v školstve. Tie dnes vyhovujú "učiteľom", ktorí si spravili byznis z "doučovania" a "prijímacích pohovorov" už pomaly aj do materskej škôlky a o nič iná im už ani nejde. Keďže po sovietskom slone sa našim vzorom stal americký slon – teda úspech meraný len množstvom peňazí, ktoré je človek schopný akýmkoľvek spôsobm získať, bude veľmi ťažké presadzovať myšlienky, ktoré prezentujete. Držím Vám palce a pevne verím, že Vás v krátkom čae uvidím v televízii, prípadne počujem v rozhlase – tlačte sa tam a zapaľujte s Komenským svetlo v nielen v žiakoch, ale hlavne v ich učiteľoch ! Ďakujem. Dear Mr. Žežula, bravo!!! I don't want to repeat the compliments, but I'm shocked that anyone active in today's education system is entitled to their own opinions and is even willing to voice them publicly. After the last few embarrassing attempts to force the government to raise teacher salaries, although the strike was over the minute the government promised to raise the salaries the following year, I stopped believing any teachers existed who have their own opinions, attitudes, convictions, and courage to speak out about the absurd conditions prevailing in our education system. The conditions today are convenient for "teachers" who have set up their own businesses by acting as "tutors" and by preparing students for "entrance exams" that will likely also soon be required for kindergartens, and these folks care about nothing else. After the Soviet elephant, our new role model now is the American elephant – which means success measured solely by the amount of money you're capable of amassing by any means, and so it will be very difficult for the ideas you promote to thrive. I keep my fingers crossed for you, and I hope to see you on TV soon, or listen to you on the radio – do everything you can to get there and, together with Comenius, try to ignite that light not only in students, but especially in their teachers! Thank you.
Ivan Ivan


uvedomil si vobec niekto, ze ucitelia ucia podla ucebnych osnov a su kontrolovani inspektormi
Ak sa maju urobit zmeny, musia ist zhora, od ministerstva
Ucitel v tomto nezmeni nic
Este aj pocet odpovedi ustnych aj pisomnych je stanoveny v skolskom poriadku
Has anyone actually realised that teachers are required to teach according to curricula, and are monitored by inspectors?
If any changes are to happen, they must come from above – from the Ministry of Education.
Teachers can't change anything about this.
Even the number of grades students must get from written and oral exams is set by school regulations.
nada nada


Mily Ivan I.
Ako mozte popri narocnej praci ucitela stihat chodit po skolach a sledovat zlozenia ucitelskych zborov.Mysim ze tych Vynimiek je vacsina
Dear Ivan I.
How can you, in view of your demanding teacher's job, find the time to visit schools and monitor the composition of teachers' staffs there? I think what you call exceptions will in fact be the majority.
nada nada


Vystizne a pravdive. Riesenie je v kompetencii SPU. To the point and true. The solution is up to the National Institute for Education.
Ivett Ivett


Suhlasim s autorom. Akurat by som poznamenal, ze nejde o novy problem a ze uz za totosky a dokonca aj pred nou bolo nase skolstvo o memorovani faktov a nie o davani veci do suvislosti. Tusim sa to vola rakusko-uhorsky model...

Ad zbytocne predmety na VS. Neviem, co ucia na strojarine, ale na electrical engineering bola (a zrejme stale je) nenavidenym predmetom matematicka analyza. Mnohi ju povazovali za zbytocne memorovanie definicii, viet, dokazov. A pri tom memorovani si akosi neuvedomili, ze je to cele o logickom uvazovani, sposoboch ako riesit problemy, pripadne ako z urcitych faktov vyvodzovat nove poznatky...
I agree with the author. I'd only remark that this is no new problem and that already during Communist times, and even prior to them, our education system was about memorising facts and not about finding relationships between things. I believe it's called the Austrian-Hungarian model...

Regarding useless subjects at universities. I don't know what's being taught at engineering colleges, but at the electric engineering college, mathematical analysis used to be (and apparently still is) the hated subject. Many saw it as useless rote-learning of definitions, theorems and proofs. But as they were memorising them, they somehow failed to realise that it was all about logical thinking, ways to solve problems, or how to infer new information from certain facts...
Ivan Ivan


jasne ivan, zobud sa a netaraj, mal som analyzu na FEI a aj som si ju zopakoval, dovolil som si totiz pouzit jednoduchsie a rychlejsie riesenie, ako bolo odprednasane – ale malo jednu chybu, nepacilo sa dotycnej, co to skusala. a hlavne si ma potom pamatala, ze to je ten, co si dovoluje navrhovat lepsie riesenia, a preto ho treba poslat prec bez znamky. logicky uvazovat a riesit problemy mozes jedine mimo FEI.
Sure, Ivan, wake up and stop blabbering. I used to have analysis at the Faculty of Electrical Engineering, and I also had to repeat the exam because I had dared to use a simpler and quicker solution than what had been lectured to us – there was only one thing wrong about it: the lady examining us disliked it. And especially, she then remembered the guy who had presumed to propose better solutions, and that's why it was necessary to send him away without a grade. To think logically and solve problems is only permitted outside that college.
martin
martin


Nuz ale ak je to ta ista dotycna, ktora si myslim ze to je, tak s tym sa asi neda spravit nic a je to skor jej problem, nez tej nestastnej matematiky.

"logicky uvazovat a riesit problemy mozes jedine mimo FEI."
Ja som take skusenosti nemal, ale mozno sa casy zmenili, oponovat nebudem.
Well, if it's the same lady who I think she might be, then I guess nothing can be done about it and it's more her issue than anything to do with the unfortunate math.

"To think logically and solve problems is only permitted outside that college."
That wasn't my experience, but times may have changed, I'm not going to gainsay that.
Ivan
Ivan


Tot pred par rokmi som praxovala na gympli.Dejepis. Brali prave "vojnu troch Henrichov". Roky nie su podstatne, podstatne bolo, ze bola obcianska vojna, par rokov sa navzajom mydlili ... a potom sa na tron dostal panovnik, ktoremu sa podarilo Francuzsko z toho marazmu dostat. Tak sa deticiek (+-16 rokov)pytam, co si myslia, ze asi tak urobil ako prve. A odpovedaju mi "ZVYSIL DANE". Generacia idealne pripravena do nasho parlamentu!!
Tak som sa nadychla a spustila nieco ako "fajn, polia neosiate, chlapi vyzabijani, vsade hlad, a vy obyvatelstvu zvysite dane. Co by ste robili vy, keby ste tam byvali?" ... A odpoved bola: "Emigrujem." ... vidno, dieta zacalo mysliet.
Tak sme sa porozpravali o podpore zahranicneho obchodu (vtedy zamorske cesty), financovani domacej cestnej siete a noveho priemyslu (vtedy textil, specialne hodvab), vydanych ediktoch o nabozenskej tolerancii a podobne.
Skoncilo to tym, ze ak na mature dostanu otazku o hocikom, kto z krajiny v marazme urobil krajinu prosperujucu, schema odpovede je rovnaka: znizil dane, podporil modernizaciu domaceho priemyslu, statne zakazky, podporil tolerovanie inych vyznani (aj politickych), podporil zahranicny obchod.
Preco to pisem: ak by som tam nastupila, a zacala takto ucit, nezabije ma primarne inspektor (ucitel ma pravo bastrngovat asi s tretinou osnov) ale rodicia.
•   Deti totiz idu na prijimacky na VS
•   ulohou gymnazialneho ucitela je pripravit ich na prijimacky
•   a tam sa ich budu pytat, KEDY PRESNE KTORY HENRICH VLADOL, a nie suvislosti a podobne somariny.
Darmo dieta bude dokazovat, ze sa naucilo mysliet, na skolu sa nedostane. Ono bude hlupe a ja zly pedagog.
A few years ago, I was practice teaching at a high school. History. The subject matter happened to be "The War of the Three Henrys". Years aren't important – important was that there was a civil war, and for a few years they kept butchering each other... and then a monarch ascended the throne who managed to pull France out of that devastation. So I ask the kids (aged 16+) what they think may have been the first thing the new ruler did. And their answer is, "HE RAISED TAXES." A generation ideally prepared to serve in our Parliament!!
So I took a deep breath and launched into something like, "Okay, nothing had been sown in the fields, men killed off, hunger everywhere, and you're going to raise taxes for the population? What would you do if you happened to live there?" ... And they reply, "Move to a different country." ... You could see the kids were starting to think.
So we talked about supporting foreign trade (back then, transoceanic voyages), financing the domestic roads network and new industry (back then, textile and especially silk), about the issued edicts on religious tolerance, and so on.
The result was that if at the school-leaving exam, they're asked about anyone who managed to turn a devastated country into a prosperous one, the outline of their answer will be the same: the ruler lowered the taxes, supported state commissions and modernising domestic industry, supported tolerating other beliefs (including political ones), and supported foreign trade.
Why I'm writing this: if I got employed by that school and started teaching in this way, my doom wouldn't so much be a school inspector (a teacher is allowed to meddle with about a third of the curriculum), but the parents.
•   Because kids will need to pass university entrance exams
•   a secondary school teacher's job is to prepare them for entrance exams
•   and as part of those, they'll be asked WHEN EXACTLY WHICH HENRY SAT ON THE THRONE, and not any context, relationships and such bull.
No use for the kid to prove he or she learned to think – the college will reject the kid. The kid will be seen as stupid and myself, as a bad teacher.
Martina
Martina


Ďakujem za výborný článok prof. Žežulovi.
Za naše vdelanie sa nemusíme hanbiť nikde vo svete. Je však pravda aj v liste, že v súčasnosti študentov až preťažujú látkou zbytočnými, encyklopedickými informáciami. Ale to vždy závisí od učiteľa ! Preto by som rád iba doplnil k článku, že súčasný stav v školstve vyvoláva nedocenenie školstva a učiteľov, ktorí berú svoju prácu ako poslanie.
Trvalým hlbokým finančným podcenením učiteľov v spoločnosti (dlhodobo majú najnižšiu priemernu mzdu zo všetkých rezortov ) došlo k odchodu mnohých schopných učiteľov, ako živiteľov rodín, zo školstva. Nahrádzajú ich často učitelia, ktorí nezohnali inde miesto. Tiež mladí absolventi učiteľských profesií sa kvôli systematickému spoločenskému aj finančnému podceneniu nasnažia ísť učiť. Nastupujú na lepšie platené pracoviská. Potom zostávajú niektorí " učitelia" ktorí sa snažia svoju autoritu získať preháňaním žiakov a študentov. Sami nevedia vybrať podstatu, tak vyžadujú dril v množstve. Pomáhajú tomu aj príjmacie požiadavky na vysoké školy, ktoré bývajú neobjektívne už z vysokoškolskej látky.
Preto by minister Ftáčnik mal bojovať o zlepšenie postavenia školstva – učiteľov a kvalita výuky by sa zaručene dvíhala s príchodom nadaných a citlivých učiteľov. Ftáčnik (aj celá vláda) zatiaľ bojuje len o svoju kariéru a o odstránenie konkurenčných vysokých škôl vytvorených mimo Bratislavy, zas z politických dôvodov.
Vláda sa bude zaoberať školstvom až vtedy, keď bude mať skutočný záujem o rozvojSlovenska.
My thanks to Professor Žežula for an excellent article.
We don't need to feel ashamed, anywhere in the world, for our education. However, there is also truth in saying that students are currently overloaded with useless, encyclopaedic information. But that always depends on the teacher! That's why I'd like to add to the article that the current state of the education system results in a lack of full appreciation of such schools and teachers who understand their job as a mission.
Due to the long-lasting, profound lack of adequate remuneration of teachers in our society (long-term, they have had the lowest average salaries from among all governmental departments), many capable teachers – as providers for their families – quit schools and the education system. They are frequently replaced by teachers who were unable to find a different job. Also, young graduates of teaching professions, due to the systematic lack of appreciation in social and financial terms, do not show any effort to find teaching jobs. They choose better-paid jobs instead. And then some "teachers" remain who strive to assert their authority by hassling pupils and students. They are themselves incapable of discerning substance, so they demand drilling in terms of quantity. In this, they are also assisted by admission requirements at universities, which are unreasonable in that they demand college-level knowledge.
That's why the Minister of Education Ftáčnik should fight for improving the position of teachers and the education sector – then the quality of teaching would be guaranteed to rise with the arrival of talented and sensitive teachers. So far, Ftáčnik and the entire government have only been fighting for their own careers and for obliterating competing universities founded outside of Bratislava, again for political reasons.
The government will only start dealing with education once it has a genuine interest in Slovakia's growth.
Jozefov Jozefov


a za co by chceli vyssie platy?
and what do they want higher salaries for?
ziak
student


TREFA!!!
Vždy som v svojom živote obdivoval učiteľov, ktorý sa snažili pochopiť môj prístup k analytickému mysleniu a NEZNIESLI ho pod čiernu zem, aj keď bola v rozpore s učebnicovým postupom. Samozrejme dospel som k rovnakému výsledku.
Ešte raz obdivujem takýchto pedagógov a myslím si, že je ich čím ďalej tým menej.
BULL'S EYE!!!
In my life, I've always admired teachers who tried to understand my approach to analytic thinking and DID NOT stamp it into the ground, even if it contradicted the textbook approach. Naturally, both approaches led to the same result.
Once again, I admire such pedagogues, but I believe there are fewer and fewer of them.
pesimista pessimist


Mna by len zaujimalo koho budu tie skoly ucit o 10-15rokov? Ze by ten cas nikdy neprisiel? I'd only like to know who those schools will be teaching in 10-15 years from now. Or is that time never going to arrive?
Vlk Wolf


vazeny pan autor
Tyzdenna hodinova dotacia stredoskolaka je 30 z 31 hodin, co je asi 6 hodin denne a nie ako vy uvadzate 8-10 hodin denne a to ze sa ziaci ucia take uzasne mnozstvo informacii je preto aby zvladli prijimacie testy na vysoke skoly,ktore vobec nevyzaduju ukazat logicke myslenie / cest vynimkam/ ale vyzaduju biflovanie informacii!!!
Dear author,
The weekly allotment for secondary school students is 30 or 31 lessons, which is around 6 hours a day, and not – as you state – 8-10 hours per day. And the reason why students are taught such an amazing amount of information is so they can pass university entrance exams which (apart from exceptions) don't demand any display of logical thinking at all but demand rote-learning of information!!!
jano jano


Ano, sestra na obchodnej mala skutocne len 6-7 hodinovy rozvrh. A potom nasledovalo 6-7 hodin domaceho ucenia sa latky, ktorej obsah (podla mojho odhadu) bol iba pismenkovy gulas.
Takze sucet 12-14 hod. ostava.
Ja som mal na strednej v 4. roc rozvrh 7 9 7 8 6 hod. v skole...
Yes, my sister at her secondary business school really only had 6-7 lessons per day. And that was followed by 6-7 hours of learning at home – stuff that (in my estimation) was nothing more than a mishmash of letters.
So, the sum total of 12-14 hours remains.
In my own secondary school, in the final fourth year, my schedule was 7, 9, 7, 8 and 6 lessons per day at school...
Marian
Marian


sestra asi nebola velmi sikovna ;-) , ja osm sa na strednej skole ucil mimo skoly asi tak 2h do tyzdna v priemere a rozvrh za jeden den bol okolo 6h, dostal som sa na VS aj som zmaturoval na dvojky a chodil som na biling. gymnazium, ale co sa tyka pumpovania vedomosti to je absolutna pravda...zial
Perhaps your sister wasn't all that bright. ;-) In my own secondary school, I was learning maybe 2 hours on average per week outside school, and my schedule was around 6 lessons per day, I passed the school-leaving exams with straight Bs, and I moved on to college. Mine was a bilingual grammar school, but when it comes to the pumping of information, that's absolutely correct... unfortunately.
guru77
guru77


Članok je bezosporu pravdivy. Mnohí to sice neprijmu, ale to nie je dolezite. Dolezite je priznat si, ze ::: Ak zamestnavatelia – podniky, podnikatelia daju jasne najavo, co ocakavaju od zamestnanca – ze nie encyklopedicke vedomosti ale schopnosti zalozene na poznani suvislosti – tak si ziaci sami vynutia vyucbu, ktora ich pripravi na pracu v zamestnani.
Necakajme od ucitelov, ze zavrhnu encyklopedicku vyucbu. Kazdy ucitel vidi SVOJ PREDMET ako najdolezitejsi, a tak nepopustí. A je to aj pohodlnejsie.
The article is no doubt correct. Many will reject it, but that's not important. Important is to admit the following: If employers (businesses, entrepreneurs) clearly state their expectations from employees – no encyclopaedic knowledge, but skills based on understanding relationships – then students themselves will demand instruction that will prepare them for their future jobs.
Let's not expect teachers to cast aside encyclopaedic instruction. Every teacher sees HIS/HER OWN SUBJECT as the most important of all, and they won't let go. It's more comfortable that way, too.
Majo Majo


nic ine iba suhlas I can only agree.
marek marek


Tiez uplne suhlasim s autorom clanku (vystihol si to presne, Ivan). Okrem casto spominaneho ucenia faktov bez videnia suvislosti chcem v tejto diskusii poukazat na druhy aspekt spomenuty v clanku, a to prilis velke mnozstvo uciva so sirokym zaberom. Potom samozrejme ani nie je cas na nevyhnutne prehlbenie a zopakovanie uciva. Ale toto nie je len slovensky problem, momentalne posobim na nemeckej univerzite a tu je to uplne rovnake. Odhadom asi v 70% pripadov student nezvladne pisomku, lebo stroskota uz na stredoskolskom ucive (uprava algebraickych vyrazov,...) a k tomu, co sa na univerzite naucil a co ma na pisomke ukazat, sa ani nedostane. Smutne. Kiez by tento clanok rozprudil vacsiu diskusiu. I also fully agree with the article writer (you gave an exact picture of it, Ivan). Besides what's already been mentioned repeatedly – that facts are being taught without understanding relationships – I'm joining this discussion to point at the second aspect mentioned in the article: the excessive scope of the curriculum, with a too broad sweep. Then, of course, there remains no time for the necessary in-depth study and revision of what's been learned. But this is not only a Slovak problem – I currently work at a German university, and it's exactly the same here. My estimation is that in about 70% of cases when students fail written exams, it's because they fail at what had been taught back in secondary school (working with algebraic expressions, ...), so they don't even get to dealing with what they were supposed to have learned at the university level, and what should have been demonstrated in the test. So sad. I wish this article would provoke a wider discussion.
Igor Igor


suhlasim s autorom, ibaze zabudol podrobit kritike aj vysoke skolstvo
tam je presne tak isto ako na zakladnych a strednych skolach , ba mozno este aj horsie...
I agree with the author, except that he forgot to criticise universities, too.
The situation there is exactly the same as in primary and secondary schools, and maybe even worse...
jan jan


Skvelý článok, skvelá diskusia. Podotknem len, že to nie je problém posledných rokov, ale dlhodobý. Sme zle vzdelaný. Nevieme myslieť, tvoriť, pracovať s informáciami, nevieme žiť. Musím Vám ale pripomenúť, že vieme (myslím odborná verejnosť) ako treba zmeniť celý systém. Bol predsa vypracovaný a uverejnený projekt "Milénium" od skvelého kolektívu autorov a ministerstvo ho má k dispozícii. Nie je ale politická vôla ho realizovať. Neviete náhodou prečo? Mne sa zdá, že je to zámer. Ozve sa niekto z autorov projektu "Milénium"? Great article, great discussion. I'd just like to point out this is not a problem of recent years, but a long-term issue. We're badli educated. We have no idea how to think, create, or work with information – we have no idea how to live. Let's not forget, though, that we do have an idea (I mean the expert public) how the entire system should be changed. After all, the project Millennium by a great team of authors has been worked out and published, and it's at the ministry's disposal. However, there is no political will to implement it. Does anyone happen to know why? It seems to me this is intentional. Can we hear back from any of the authors of the Millennium project?
Ferdinand Ferdinand


"Sme zle vzdelany".Aj Vam by nezaskodilo doucovanie zo slovenciny.
"We're badli educated." It wouldn't hurt for you to learn some spelling, either.
milos
milos


Prepáčte, stalo sa.
I apologise, it happened.
Ferdinand
Ferdinand


Suhlasim s autorom clanku. Pri citani prispevku Ferdinanda mi napadlo, ze existoval ete skor iny velky projekt mysli, ze Konstatin.
Zmena skolskeho systemu ... aspon toho vyskolskeho naozaj vznikne len vtedy, ak studenti sa budu hlasit len tam, kde ziskaju kvalitnu pripravu pre zivot. To vsak by zafungovalo asi len vtedy, keby si klienti skol financovali skolstvo sami, resp. ich rodicia z poziciek, poistiek a pod.
I agree with the article writer. While reading Ferdinand's post, it occurred to me that another great project had been proposed even earlier – I think it was called Konstantin.
Changing the education system (at least the university system) – that can really only happen if students start enrolling in colleges offering them some quality preparation for their lives. And that would probably only work if the schools' clients were financing their education on their own, or if their parents did that using loans, insurance payments, etc.
Dagmar
Dagmar


Aj ja sa pripajam k suhlasnemu ohlasu na clanok prog. Zuzulu. Pravda je taka, ze kym sa nezmeni system, nemozu sa zmenit ucitelia. Lebo aj ten najlepsi musi ist podla osnov. A tie mu urcuju prebrat neuveritelne mnozstvo latky. A osnovy sa musia zmenit na zaklade sirokej diskusie s ucitelmi na vsetkych urovniach, s angazovanymi rodicmi a pripadne aj s pracovnikmi statneho aparatu. Lebo v konecnom dosledku to musia statni uradnici premenit na zakon. Co sa tyka vysokeho skolstva, tam su jadnotlive fakulty a ich katedry predsa len vo volnejsej situacii. O pocte katedier, o mnozstve docentov a profesorov, o studijnom plane rozhoduje akademicky senat. Takze ak je niekto nespokojny s urovnou vzdelavania na niektorej katedre, nevinnte z toho Ministerstvo skolstva, ale vlastneho dekana a jeho poradcov! I'm also joining the chorus of approval of Prof. Žežula's article. The truth is that unless the system changes, teachers can't change, either. Because even the best teachers must follow the curriculum, and the curriculum requires them to teach an incredible amount of material. That's why the curriculum must be changed on the basis of a broad discussion with teachers on all levels, with engaged parents and perhaps also employees of state institutions. After all, it's state institutions that must eventually transform it into law. As to universities, individual faculties and their departments as a matter of fact do have more freedom. The number of departments, professors and assistant professors, as well as study plans are determined by the academic senate. So if anyone is dissatisfied with the level of education in a particular department, don't blame the Ministry of Education for it, but your own dean and the dean's advisors!
obcan citizen


konecne rozumny nazor
finally a reasonable opinion
jano
jano


Konečne presná trefa po hlavičke klinca, profesorovi to perfektne páli. Článok je úplne výstižný, nemám čo k tomu dodať, snáď len tú samostatnosť myslenia bolo treba viac vysvetliť a spropagovať. Poznáme a skladujeme v hlave obrovské kvantum faktov a poznatkov, nevieme však ich pospájať, nájsť podstatné súvislosti a na základe nich vysloviť samostatný úsudok a samostatný názor! Toto je bieda nášho vzdelania, myslenia, vedomia a povedomia, ale náprava nebude asi jednoduchá. Ľudia typu autora článku sú však určitým dôvodom na optimizmus. Finally someone hit the nail smack on the head – this professor is real smart. The article says it all, and I have nothing to add – it might only be useful to explain and promote "independence of thinking" a bit more. Although we may know and store a tremendous amount of facts and pieces of knowledge in our heads, we're unable to connect it all, find the relevant relationships and on that basis, express our own independent judgments and opinions! That's the poverty of our education, thinking, knowledge and awareness, and improving them is unlikely to be easy. People of the type of the article writer, however, are a certain ground for optimism.
realista realist


Tak k tomuto sa neda nic ine povedat,je to PRAVDA, KTORU SA KONECNE NIEKTO ODVAZIL NAPISAT. Ci uz bude nasledovat nejake konstrukcne riesenie ostava na Slovensku len zahadou. Well, to this, nothing else can be said except that it's TRUE, AND THAT FINALLY SOMEONE DARED TO WRITE IT DOWN. Whether this will now be followed by a constructive solution, remains only a mystery in Slovakia.
master master


To co bolo napisane v clanku nie je ziadne hrdinstvo. Su to len slova, ktore sa prijemne pocuvaju. Principialnym riesenim moze byt iba odstatnenie skolstva, ked o podobe skolstva nebudu rozhodovat statni uradnici.

Ale ked niekto napise nieco o spoplatneni skolstva, nedocka sa takych burlivych ovacii, ako ked len skritizuje to, co sa opravnene studentom nepaci. Cele mi to pripomina myslenie z roku 1989, ked sa za hradinu povazoval kazdy, kto nadaval na socializmus a pritom bol v srdci socialistom.

Clanok je slaby, tak ako vsetky clanky o skolstve v SME v poslednom case. Kritizuje, ale ako jedine riesenia vidi tie, ktore mozu prist cez statny dirigizmus.
What the article says is no heroism. They are just words that are pleasant to listen to. A thoroughgoing solution can only be the denationalisation of schools, so that state officials no longer have the power to decide about our education system.

But whenever someone dares to say that students should pay for their education, they won't get to hear such thunderous applause as those who simply criticise what justifiably doesn't appeal to students. It all reminds me of the thinking from back in 1989 when all people considered themselves heroes for abusing socialism verbally, while remaining socialists at heart.

The article is weak, just like all recent articles about education in the SME daily. It voices criticism, but proposes only such solutions that can arrive through interference by the government.
wq
wq


Som rad ze sa na problem pozera aj z tejto strany.
Problem je ako vzdy trhovy – pozrite sa kto dnes zostal ucit na skolach: dochodkyne, ucitelky pat rokov do dochodku a maturantky co sa nedostali na vysoku. Asi uznate sami, ze s tymto potencialom sa projekt Milenium neda spustit. A tato kategoria dnesnych ucitelov urcite nema zaujem o rozvoj tvoriveho skolstva – ved uz maju nieco nabiflovane a nejaky studentik by im este ukazal, ze sa problem da riesit inak, tak je lepsie ho zavalit "ucivom" aby uz nemal chut spekulovat(mysliet).
V tejto chvili sa dofinancovanie a podpora skolstva zda ako zbytocne kecy lenze vyrasta nam tu jeden velky problem. Vyvoj technologii je taky rychly, ze stale menej ludi je schopnych drzat krok – dnes je to mozno 5 percent populacie, ak sa nic nezmeni tak o desat rokov to bude 1 promile. Ostatni rezignuju a zacne sa kastovanie ktore nemusi dopadnut dobre. Prave skolstvo ma sancu zmenit tento trend a pripravit cloveka pre tretie tisicrocie. Lenze tazko s tymito odbornikmi a za tieto peniaze. Bolo by nacase prestat sit zaplatu na zaplatu a zacat riesit problem systemovo(a nielen tento). A nech mi nikto nehovori, ze na to nie su peniaze to by sme podniky nepredavali za stvrtinu ceny...
I'm glad someone is also looking at the problem from this side.
The problem is, as always, related to the market – look at who's remained teaching in our schools today: female pensioners, female teachers with five years remaining to pension, and female secondary-school graduates who failed to move on to college. I think you'll admit that with such potential, the Millennium project can't even be launched. And this category of today's teachers definitely isn't interested in developing a creative education system – after all, they've memorised quite a lot themselves, and heaven forbid some kid would dare to show them that a problem might also be solved differently – they'd rather overwhelm the student with "stuff to learn", so the kid no longer feels like speculating (thinking).
Putting more finances into and supporting the education system might currently seem pointless; however, a big problem is emerging. The development of technologies is so fast that the number of people who can keep up is getting smaller – today, it might be 5 percent of the population, but if nothing changes, then in ten years, it might only be 1 per mille. Others will give up, and people will start getting separated into castes, and that's unlikely to have a happy ending. It's precisely the education system that has the chance to change this trend and prepare people for the third millennium. You can hardly do that with these experts and this amount of money, though. It's high time to stop putting patch upon patch – instead, the problem should be tackled on the system level (and not only this problem). Don't tell me there's not enough money for that, given that we've been selling state businesses at the quarter price of what they're worth...
lejo lejo


problem bude musiet asi vyriesit cas....lebo neobl to len komunizmus, co do nas vstepoval encyklopedicke sialenstva...ta tradicia trva este z monarchie...riesenim by bolo zrusit dozivotne profesury a docentury uplne vsetkym, nielen tym, co ich budu teraz ziskavat a vypisat na vsetky miesta obratom konkurzy. Ak by zaroven dostali skoly volnost v odmenovani, na VS by sa vela zmenilo....na strednych skolach je to prblematickejsie...tam budu este dlho ucit slabo plateni dochodcovia a nedoukovia...rodicia do ulic! The problem will likely need to be solved by time ... because it wasn't just Communism that was instilling encyclopaedic madness into our minds... that tradition has been here since the monarchy... a solution would be to abolish life-time professor and assistant professor tenures for absolutely everyone, not only those who are still to obtain them, and right afterwards, put up job advertisements for all those positions. If, at the same time, schools were given freedom in terms of remuneration, a lot would change in universities... It's more problematic with secondary schools... there, badly paid pensioners and ignoramuses will continue teaching for a long time... parents to the streets!
iMackie iMackie


Ja som išla na vysokú školu pre 25 rokmi aj vtedy som mala na prijimackach limity, derivácie a integraly. Aj vtedy som mala spolužiakov, ktorí nevedeli počítať zlomky a musela som ich to doučovať. Myslím, že to záleží od školy, z ktorej žiak prichádza a vôbec nezáleží na známkach, ktoré žiak mal na strednej škole. Tých predmetov, ktoré sa zdajú byť zbytočné na vysokej škole, sme mali za našich čias viac, dokonca nám v piatom ročníku povedali, že budeme mať červenú štátnicu na EF (ako sa to vtedy volalo). Niekoľko z nich sa mi neskôr v praxi zišlo, okrem tej červenej štátnice. Myslím si, že tá pani učila už za mojich čias. Lenže aj tie vety a dôkazy majú svoju logiku a ak sa ich niekto učil mechanicky, potom je to problém.
Mám výhrady tiež k vyuke na našich školách, hlavne ZŠ. Matika nemá žiaden systém, učenie násobilky do dvadsať, rovnice pred zápornými číslami... Botanika v piatej triede, to je učebnica pre gymnazistu, samé cudzie slovo, pojem, fyzika skáče z jedného do druhého bez následnosti. Žiaden ucelený systém, previazanosť. A ešte mi vadí. My keď sme sa učili slovenčinu, ZŠ bola zameraná na zvládnutie gramatiky. Písali sme diktát jeden za druhým, možno sme mali takú slovenčinárku, neviem. Moje deti písali tak tri - štyri diktáty za rok, ako sa môžu poriadne naučiť pravopis, dokonca si ani chyby neopravovali.
Ako by to nechávali na rodičoch, nech ich to tí naučia. Nech sa učia len základné vetné členy, typy viet, ale nech sa poriadne naučia pravopis.
I was admitted to university 25 years ago and back then, too, admission tests contained limits, derivations and integrals. Back then, too, some of my fellow students were incapable of calculating fractions, and I had to help them out. I think this depends on the school a student comes from, and it's not related at all to the grades the student had in secondary school. As to subjects that seem redundant at university level, there were several of them in our time, and we were even told in our fifth year we'd be required to pass the "red EF state exam" (or whatever it was called then). I was able to make use of some of the subjects in practice later on, except for that "red" state exam. I think that lady was also teaching in my days. But even those theorems and proofs have their own logic and if someone just learns them by rote, then it's a problem.
I also object to education in our schools, especially primary schools. There's no system to maths: teaching multiplication tables up until 20, equations ahead of negative numbers... Botany in fifth grade: that's a textbook for upper secondary school students – nothing but foreign words and terms, and in physics, too, you jump from one topic to another with no reasonable sequence. There's no methodical system or coherence. And one more thing I dislike. When I was being taught Slovak, my primary school focused on mastering grammar. We had to write one dictation after another – perhaps this was due to our teacher of Slovak, I don't know. But my kids used to write only three or four dictations per year – so how can they learn to spell properly? They weren't even required to correct the mistakes they'd made.
It's as if schools were leaving it up to parents to teach their kids. I'd prefer if kids were only learning about basic parts of sentences and sentence types – but they should definitely learn to spell properly.
jana jana


pan profesor ma vyhrady k vyuke na nasich ZS a SS.Doporucujem mu pozriet si autorov vacsiny ucebnic pre tieto skoly, takisto menoslov ucitelov , ktori spracuvaju tematicke osnovy pre tieto skoly.Bude sa velmi cudovat ked zisti ze su to vacsinou ucitelia VS
The professor objects to education as offered by our primary and secondary schools. I recommend for him to look at the names of authors of most of the textbooks for these schools, as well as the list of teachers compiling the curricula for these schools. He'll be very surprised to find out that these are mostly university teachers.
jano
jano


Vážený pán Šimečka, myslím, že táto diskusia stojí za zverejnenie komplet ako je, aby bolo vidno koľko ľudí súhlasí s autorom. Očakávam v blízkom čase obsiahly rozhovor s pánom Žežulom na stránkach SME. Začnite kampaň - lídra (alebo aspoň myšlienky) už máte! Dokážte raz dotiahnuť do konca niečo pozitívne (vykašlite sa na Kinčešov byt a podobné stupidity, ktoré do jednej vznikajú ako objednávky konkurečných skupín) a rozbúrte stuchnuté vody slovenského školstva! Ak to nevyšlo v zdravotníctve (ani úmrtie Karola Ježíka vás nedonútilo vyvinúť dostatočný tlak, aby zodpovední niesli zodpovednosť) skúste sa rehabilitovať a pomôžte spustiť kampaň "Za normálne školy". Ďakujem. Dear Mr. Šimečka [SME daily editor-in-chief], I believe this discussion is worth publishing in its entirety as it is, so that everyone sees how many people agree with the author. In the near future, I expect a comprehensive interview with Mr. Žežula on SME pages. Launch a campaign – you already have the spokesperson (or at least ideas)! Try, for once, to bring something positive to fruition (and stop caring about Minister Kinčeš's apartment and such stupidities which, one and all, only come to light made-to-order by competing groups), and stir up the stagnant waters of the Slovak education system! Considering you failed to do that regarding the health care system (not even the death of your former editor-in-chief Karol Ježík brought sufficient pressure on you to ensure that those responsible would bear consequences), try to restore your reputation by helping to launch a For Normal Schools campaign. Thank you.
Ivan Ivan


Ivan, hovorite mi z duse! Presne taky isty nazor na Sme a jej "spravodajstvo" mam aj ja, takisto mam presne taky isty nazor na zlyhanie Sme v suvislosti s umrtim Karola Jezika. Som zvedavy, ako sa zachova sefredaktor! Pan Simecka, pripajam sa k ziadosti Ivana!!! Ivan, you speak from my heart! I have the exact same opinion on SME daily and its "coverage", just as I have the same exact opinion on SME's failure regarding Karol Ježík's death. I'll be curious to see the editor-in-chief's reaction! Mr. Šimečka, I subscribe to Ivan's request!!!
obcan citizen


S mnohymi nazormi mozno suhlasit ale diskusia s tymi, ktori maju pocit skolou nepochopenej jedinecnosti a vlastnych jedinecnych rieseni nie je konstruktivna. Ak Ste jedinecni zivot to skor ci neskor ukaze. Myslim ze v skolach je percentualne take mnozstvo schopnych pedagogov ake je percento schopnych v celej spolocnosti. A co k vyucbe? Je to zlozite, ako cele ludske poznanie. Naco ucit dieta hrat na husle ked mame taku dokonalu elektronicku nahravku, naco ucit niekoho pismeno "q", ako casto ho vo Vasej praxi potrebujete, atd.? Myslim ze je potrebne trocha pokory voci ludskemu poznaniu. It's possible to agree with many opinions expressed here, but to discuss with those who feel that schools failed to comprehend their uniqueness and their own unique solutions, isn't productive. If you really are unique, life will bear that out sooner or later. I believe there's the same percentage of capable teachers in schools as is the percentage of capable people in this society. And the education system? It's a complicated issue, as is our entire human knowledge. Why should a child learn to play the violin if such perfect electronic recordings of violin play are available, and why should anyone bother to learn to write the letter "q", considering you almost never need that letter in Slovak texts, etc.? I think we need some humility in the face of human knowledge.
norbert norbert


Celkom suhlasim s norbertom..
co sa tyka clanku, je to podla mna pravda.. ale ked si vezmete ten extrem, aj tam by sa dalo vela veci zlepsit..
ja som skusila, a este aj skusam, obidva typy skol. Slovensku a kanadasku. Obrovsky rozdiel..
kym som bola na slovensku, zdalo sa mi to normalne, ze savsetko musim ucit od-slova-do-slova, a potom to len odrecitovat ked budem odpovedat.
a potom som isla do kanady. strasny sok. ziak len tak vstane a ide si ostruhat ceruzku (ktoru mu skola dala) na spolocnom triednom mechanickom struhatku. nikto ho neokrikne, aby si sadol, nic. na test, ktory je pisomny, sa vsetci ucia, ale to iste ucivo budu vacsinou potrebovat aj v nasledujucom teste, takze to nema zmysel hned zabudnut.
opacny extrem: neviem, ako to slusne povedat, ale poznam jedno dievca, ktora je siedmacka, a nevie kolko je 12:3. Vazne. potom nevie vyriesit ani jednoduche rovnice, ani trochu tazsie rovnice, a preto musi ist na doucovanie do letnej skoly..

podla mna je najlepsi nejaky kompromis: nieco "medzi"
a tiez by dost pomohla ta publicita– ivan, pekne si to povedal.. so long,
I quite agree with norbert.
In terms of the article, I believe it's true... but when you consider that extreme, many things could be improved there as well...
I have experienced, and I'm still experiencing, both types of schools. Slovak and Canadian. Huge difference...
While I was still in Slovakia, I thought it normal I was supposed to memorise everything word for word, and then only recite it back as part of the exam.
And then I left for Canada. A terrible shock. A student is allowed just to get up at any time to go and sharpen his pencil (given to him for free by the school) using the mechanical sharpener shared by the whole class. No one shouts at him to sit down – nothing. Everyone is studying for tests that are in written form, but most of the same stuff will also be needed in later tests, so it won't do to forget everything right after the first test.
The opposite extreme: I don't know how to put it politely, but there's a seventh-grade schoolgirl here who has no idea how much is 12 divided by 3. Seriously. Then she's unable to solve either simple or slightly difficult equations, and she needs to take extra summer school classes...

In my opinion, the best solution would be some sort of a compromise: something "in between".
the right PR could also help quite a bit – you put it nicely, Ivan... so long,
janette janette


Je to fantázia, že niekto konečne niekto napísal do novín to, o čom my rodičia stále len "kecáme".Prispejem aj ja svojou troškou do mlyna.Najskôr fakty.
dcéra – 10 rokov, piatačka
ja-vysokoškolsky vzdelaný.
V prvom rade sme museli vybaviť dve sady učebníc, lebo to, čo začala nosiť v taške bolo fantasticky ťažké.
Matematika-neskutočné.Najprv im dajú príklady a zhruba o dva týždne ich to učia.To sa stáva bežne.Deliť ich učia len tzv.dlhým spôsobom.Aký je to spôsob ani sa nepýtajte.Ja sa pri ňom mýlim bežne.
Prírodopis,zemepis a dejepis-neexistuje rozprávanie vlastnými slovami.Len odpovede na otázky.Vyjadrovanie nula bodov.
Slovenský jazyk-všetko ponechané na rodičov.Vysvetlovanie neexistuje.
A to nehovorím to, že učebné osnovy sú postavené tak, že mi sme sa väčšinu učili až na strednej škole.
Pán profesor máte moju nehynúcu úctu.
PS.Keď som ja robil skúšku z matematiky pani docentka mi na moj dôkaz matematickej vety povedala, že to je zle.Keď som jej ho ukázal v jej skriptách, dostalo sa mi odpovede, že je to zle a mám sa to naučiť dobre.
It's fantastic that someone finally published in a newspaper what us parents only keep "blathering" about. So let me add my two cents. But first, some facts.
my daughter – age 10, fifth grade
myself – university-educated.
The first thing we had to do, was to buy two copies of each textbook, because the things she started carrying around in her schoolbag, were fantastically heavy.
Mathematics – incredible. They're first given exercises to solve, and around two weeks later, they start teaching them how to do it. This happens on a daily basis. They're only being taught how to divide in the so-called "long way". Don't even ask me what exactly that is. If I use the method, I often make mistakes.
Biology, geography and history – it's not permitted to say anything using your own words. You're only supposed to give set answers to given questions. Expressing yourself is irrelevant.
Slovak language – everything is left up to parents. No one bothers to explain anything.
And I won't even mention that the curriculum is set up in a way that reminds me of what I only started learning in junior high school.
Professor, you have my undying respect.
PS: When I was taking an exam in mathematics, the assistant professor commented on my proof of a mathematical theorem that it was incorrect. When I showed her the same proof in her own textbook, I was given the answer that it was incorrect and that I should learn it the right way.
hviezda star


Fantastický článok Ivana Žežulu. Vyštudoval som prednedávnom Filozofickú fakultu UK, nie techniku ani matematiku, ale I. Žežula vystihol situáciu aj na mojej ustanovizni. I. Žežula má pravdu: slovenskí študenti študujú systémom pumpy – namemorujú sa bez hlbšieho pochopenia nezmysly tesne pred skúškami, aby ich ihneď po skúškach zabudli; mozgové bunky počas piatich rokov svojou nečinnosťou či perverzným zneužitím chátrajú a u mnohých promovantov sa do konca života z vysokoškolského šoku nezotavia. Kto päť rokov študuje systémom pumpy – inak slovenský vysokoškolák študovať nemôže, lebo by vyletel zo skúšok –, má po absolvovaní slovenskej univerzity pocit, že vystúpil zo – žumpy. Prečo je slovenská alma mater pre väčšinu Slovákov žumpou? Magnificent article by Ivan Žežula. I've recently graduated from Philosophical Faculty of Comenius University, neither technology nor mathematics, but Ivan Žežula captured the situation in my institution, too. Ivan Žežula is right: Slovak students study using the pump system – without thinking about the substance, they only memorise some nonsense just ahead of exams, just to forget it immediately after the exams are over. Their brain cells, over the five years of their inactivity or perverse abuse, start decaying, and for many graduates, the entire rest of their lives is not enough to recover from the shock received at the university level. Those who study using the pump system for five years – and Slovak university students can't afford to study using any other system, because they'd fail exams – feel after graduating from a Slovak university, as if they'd just emerged from a... cesspool. Why is their Slovak alma mater a cesspool for most Slovaks?
Slovenčinár Teacher of Slovak


clanok mi hovori uplne z duse. spravte z neho peticiu a s radostou sa pod nu podpisem. This article speaks from my heart. Make a petition out of it, and I'll be happy to sign it.
juraj g. juraj g.


Reagujem na wq zo 6.6. Pán Žežula len konštatuje holé fakty, čo je samozrejme prvý krok k náprave. Ja si tiež myslím, že náprava veci je v konkurencii, odštátnení. Lenže tá zotrvačnosť je obrovská... I'm responding to wq from June 6th. Mr. Žežula only states bare facts, which is – naturally – the first step towards improving things. I, too, believe that the remedy is in creating competition, in denationalising schools. But the inertia is tremendous...
Ľudo Toth Ľudo Toth


Prečítajte si pôvodný článok Ivana Žežulu Read Ivan Žežula's original article

 

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